September 18, 2005
the real reason we don’t go to church
This afternoon, while the boys were having their lunch, we started talking about where they would go to school next year. They are ‘on the list’ at three Catholic schools, including the school that Wade and his siblings went to, which is our first choice, as it is right around the corner and has a good academic program (that should really go in the opposite order, shouldn’t it?). Wade and I were both raised Catholic, but we have both ‘lapsed’ and have NO intention of returning to the Catholic church. But Catholic school for the kids? Sure, why not!
Anyway, Charlie has never been to church (come to think of it, he’s never even been IN a church), and Henry has been exactly three times: my brother’s wedding (he was 12 weeks old), his own baptism (in an Episcopal church, don’t even ask), and one memorable Christmas day, when he was two and a half. He skipped in with my mother, stood up in the pew, and asked, ‘Is this the restaurant?’ Then, at the end of the processional hymn, he clapped and said, ‘Hooray! Now let’s go. I want to eat.’
So it has occured to us that maybe, in the next year or so, he should actually GO to Mass with, well, someone who is not Wade or me, just to get the idea before he starts school. Today I said, ‘If you go to school at St. Right Down the Road’s, you will have to go to church. Would you like to go sometime before then with Mimi?’
‘No,’ he said, ‘I don’t think so. I don’t want to go to church.’
‘Why not?’ I asked, thinking oh, no, what have I gotten myself into?
‘Because you have to sit STILL. And then it’s all stand up sit down stand up sit down. It’s boring.’
Wade looked at me and said, ‘HOW DOES HE KNOW THAT?’
I don’t know, but he’s got a point.
Edited to add: When I wrote this, as I said in the comments, I was just being funny (because, honestly, I am from a long line of people who make jokes to counter stress. And ha ha ha, this school thing has been WAY stressfull! And not funny at all!). But I was not trying to belittle anyone’s faith or express any ambivalence about our school choice. Moving Henry from his wonderful Montessori school has been heartbreaking, in so many ways. I feel like I have somehow failed him–and Charlie, too–by so terribly misreading what he needed. And now I am struggling to balance my own beliefs with his needs. And I end up making jokes, because I don’t really know how else to talk about this.
I think that this has been the most difficult parent thing I have done so far. Harder than the NICU and the reflux and all those days when someone cried and clung to my leg at school drop-off (like Charlie did! Today, even!). I thought that if I knew what I believed in, I could pass that on to my children, but it’s not that simple. What I DO know, though, is that I love my sons and I want them to have the best educational experience possible. And I am trying to make peace with what that means.
And I am thankful for all of the input, and particularly for everyone’s kindness here. Because this is so very hard for me, and making jokes doesn’t really make it any better.
That’s all.
Posted by Susan @ 12:26 pm • Uncategorized
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September 18th, 2005 at 2:48 pm, adria Says:
Henry is so brilliant and quick too the point. I am very impressed and agree completely with him. I cannot wait until he learns that the wine represents blood - that will be an interesting conversation. He catches on to what is going on quick, very impressive.
You might want to leave this conversation out of the application process.
September 18th, 2005 at 3:17 pm, McSwain Says:
Well, see now–that’s what ya’ll get for growing up Catholic. My son and I actually like going to our (Protestant) church.
Don’t they make you go to daily chapel or something when you’re in Catholic School?
September 18th, 2005 at 4:03 pm, Heather Says:
Sounds like a good catholic in the running. Isnt there a Sunday school that you might warm him up to the idea. Then again, they may try to work on his “religious education”. I know of some lefty Catholic feminists that would make excellents tutors!
September 18th, 2005 at 4:19 pm, ieatcrayonz Says:
I love the clapping and his statement after the hymn. Heh heh.
I’m not sure which Catholic school you’re referring to - does it go all the way through high school? How will you handle communion and confirmation when the time comes? I always hated having to sit in the pew while everyone else went up during communion.
September 18th, 2005 at 8:15 pm, Susan Says:
I can only imagine Henry taking communion–for him, it won’t be an issue of belief, but one of taste.
And, at the rate he’s going with the new foods, there is NO WAY IN HELL he is going to taste that communion wafer. Especially after they tell him about transubstantiation.
Then again, maybe that’s what will win him over . . .
September 18th, 2005 at 9:27 pm, MIM Says:
I say he doesn’t last a full year! I know I wouldn’t.
September 18th, 2005 at 11:14 pm, Susan in Tulsa Says:
Why bother sending him to a Catholic school? You and Wade seem to have negative feelings about the Catholic church, why subject yourselves to constant contact with a group you feel that negative about? Why not just send him to some other kind of school? I’m a Catholic, I would never have sent my sons to a school with a philosophy I totally disagreed with. (they went to public and Quaker schools, don’t-ask-it’s-a-long-story).
Henry might like Mass if he had a chance to get used to it, there are almost as many kids as grownups at 10 AM Mass at Holy Family, and they don’t look terribly bored or put-upon.
September 19th, 2005 at 4:32 am, Susan Says:
I started out trying to be funny here, but Susan has cut right to the heart of the matter (which is why I like her as a reader). We have had to weigh so many things in our decisions about Henry, and right now school is the most pressing.
We started him at a non-religious Montessori school, which had appeal for so many reasons, but with all his issues, just wasn’t going to work. He needs someplace with lots of structure and small classes–the latter rules out any public schools in our neighborhood, as kindergarden clases around here have at least 25 kids to one teacher. There are two Episcopal schools in OKC; at one I had a terrible experience with the Headmaster, who berated me for not putting H in kindergarden this year, solely because he is five. We are still considering the other school, but there are some issues there as well (hey! Listen to me whine about all my choices! Sorry).
We have not chosen Catholic school lightly or without thought and discussion; we have been talking, quite a bit and quite seriously, about what it means to send our sons to a Catholic school when we ourselves are not Catholic. I did not mean to sound negative about Catholics themselves–my husband’s entire family are practicing Catholics, and I love and respect them very much.
We have not made this choice frivolously or thoughtlessly. We have made what we hope will be a good educational choice for our sons, particularly for Henry. We have a great deal of respect for the schools we are looking at, and have met some wonderful people at each place. And Susan, you make an important point–I will need to think carefully about my tone when I write and speak about this school.
I am remembering,as I write, why it was so heart wrenching to realize that we needed to take Henry out of his Montessori school, which DOES have a philosophy that we entirely agree with. I really do hope that this school works out for Henry. I think it will. Because I don’t know what other options we have, frankly.
September 19th, 2005 at 6:41 am, The June Cleaver Diaries Says:
We chose a Catholic preschool for Alex, even though we go to a Presbyterian church. I was raised Catholic, but like you, drifted away. No matter what philosophy you follow, or however weakly/strongly, in preschool it comes down to teaching ideas that are common to all religions: respect of yourself and others, and the Golden Rule. If this school is a fit for you guys, stay with it. If he comes home talking about something you’re not sure you believe in, discuss it critically. No matter what religion (or none at all), my goal with my kids is to shape respectful, thoughtful, independent thinkers.
September 19th, 2005 at 6:53 am, The June Cleaver Diaries Says:
My other goal is to teach my son to keep his hand off of his unit in public, but we’re not having much luck with that yet.
September 19th, 2005 at 7:47 am, Susan in Tulsa Says:
Susan, I understand. After 13 years of school struggles we sent our younger son to a Quaker boarding school when he was 16. (which was a great choice BTW) It’s very hard to figure out what’s right for some kids, usually the smartest ones.
One of my good friends is the parish musician at Epiphany on Britton Rd. He also runs the Catholic Worker house in OKC. I’ve never attended Epiphany, so I don’t know what their Masses etc. are like, but it has to be a cool place if they employ Bob, who looks like an Old Testament prophet and who makes a hobby of promoting, publicizing, and giving basically his whole life to often unpopular causes like peace and justice.
Martha, I won’t tell you how long it took us to get our younger son to remember to unzip his pants IN the bathroom, not ON THE WAY to the bathroom. He’s almost 20 and fortunately he got the picture in time to avoid getting charged with indecent exposure along the way.
September 19th, 2005 at 9:47 am, Susan Says:
Susan, thank you for your graciousness and for the link the Olney Friends school–I would send the boys to a Quaker school in a heartbeat (I went to Sidwell Friends in Washington DC for a semester–Chelsea Clinton also went there, although clearly not when I was there). And I am not familiar with Epiphany, but we live near Britton Road, so it must be in the neighborhood.
I don’t mean to sound defensive about our school choice, nor do I mean to belittle anyone’s faith, but we are really between a rock and a hard place, and somehow we have to make that into a safe, comfortable place for our children to learn.
And Katy–Henry STILL tends to drop trou on his way to the bathroom. Occasionally, he will change his mind about WHICH potty he wants to use and will go skipping through our house with his pants around his knees.
And Charlie just likes to see what’s going on down there. All. The. Time. Argh.
September 19th, 2005 at 9:53 am, McSwain Says:
I am enjoying the really good, thoughtful discourse springing from this post. Just thought I’d say that.
September 19th, 2005 at 10:27 am, Candace Says:
That was a very funny post, Susan, and the comments from the other Susan took the words right out of my mouth!
You mentioned that you were concerned about Henry’s issues and class size and all. Now, I’m only speaking with experience about the Catholic schools here, so correct me if I’m wrong, but they aren’t required to honor IEPs or any special requirements…here in Ohio, at least. Our public schools have so many special services and let me tell you that we have taken advantage of every single one available. The Catholic schools here could NEVER handle Christopher’s special needs. Never. Every one of our elementary schools (we have 5 in our district) has an occupational therapist, a physical therapist, a speech therapist, a psychologist, and a counselor on staff. Full-time.
I really hope you don’t get offended, because that’s the last thing I intend, but can the Catholic schools really handle Henry’s quirks? (And I hope that question doesn’t seem like I think you haven’t thought about that, because I’m sure you have; you didn’t address that in your first post, so I’m just wondering.)
September 19th, 2005 at 10:44 am, sarcastic journalist Says:
I was raised Catholic, now Baptist. Baptists send the kids out until they’re about six or so. They also have coloring books in the cards they hand out during the service.
I agree, Catholic church is boring. I’m never sure what sign or song or saying I’m supposed to say.
September 19th, 2005 at 10:49 am, Susan Says:
Misfit, our most basic dilemma with the public schools in our district is this: the class sizes are large (25 or 28 kids in a class, with one teacher versus 20–or in one case 12–students in a class with a teacher AND a classroom aide at the Catholic schools). He is thriving right now in the very small classroom; he is able to do the work, and the teacher is responsive to his quirkyness. I wish he could stay in this school forever, but no luck.
We are also, for better or worse, concerned about labelling Henry. The Episcopal school that we are considering has excellent programs for kids with ADD and ADHD–but it also has a reputation in OKC as the school for ‘the hyper kids’ (as TWO people have cheerfully pointed out to me recently). I worry that if he goes to school and is the ’special’ kid, it will be even harder for him. And I worry, as I write that, that I am cutting him off from something that would benefit him.
I don’t know that I am articulating this very clearly, as it makes me want to cry (even more so today, for whatever reason). We have not gotten ANY sense, from anyone we have visited with, that the public schools available to us would be a good fit for Henry. But when we have spoken to people at the Catholic schools, and at Henry’s current school, they have been welcoming and supportive and quick to point to various options that we can take advantage of. When I weigh what I know, from friends whose kids are in the public schools here, about our public elementary options–large classes, little opportunity for kids who are ahead of the curriculum to be successfully challenged–against what I hear about the Catholic schools near us, it seems like the right choice.
I have to stop writing about this for a little while; I am really feeling overwhelmed. NOt by you all, really, just by the whole thing. But please, keep the comments coming–you all are pushing me, in a good way, to think carefully about this.
September 19th, 2005 at 11:41 am, The June Cleaver Diaries Says:
Susan–
Like I said before, if he’s thriving there, that’s your answer.
If he ever needs OT/PT/ST, most states take care of that, at least in the early years. If there’s no school therapist on staff, one can be contracted through an agency through the school, or he could go to a clinic, or he could even get home-based services.
So there’s a net there, if he ever needs it. And he’s doing so well, there’s no need to question yourself.
September 19th, 2005 at 1:07 pm, Homestead Says:
I’ve been thinking again. Here’s what I think.
1. Trust your gut.
2. What are the stats? Are there many other non-Catholic kids at the Catholic school? My guess is yes. And my guess is that a lot of the ones who say they are Catholic are, um, Modern Catholics. If you know what I mean.
3. Visit the school…. How does it make you feel? The days of the nuns-in-penguin-costumes are, for the most part, behind us. Most Catholic educators I know (oh yeah, go with the generalizations…) are good teachers & good role models and not terribly “churchy” in their ways.
4. Children’s mass. It rocks. They do rap songs about loving one another. How can that not be fun?
5. Remember this is not the end-all-be-all decision. If it doesn’t work you will adjust, reevaluate and try again. Sucks to do it, but it is possible.
6. You are good parents. You have the best of intentions. You will make it work.
7. And you can always retire to the booze pool if the stress becomes too much.
September 19th, 2005 at 1:56 pm, McSwain Says:
I keep thinking about this, so can’t keep my mouth shut… I have a nephew (now 13) with some issues that are similar to what you’ve described about Henry, and I’m observing & researching Special Ed, etc. for my credential right now. I really believe that Henry has the most important part of the equation here: parents who love him, who believe in him, who will take time to help him, and who will fight to make sure he has what he needs. Because no matter where he is, you will probably need to be very proactive about getting his needs met. And no matter where he is, he will have YOU, so he will succeed. Trust your gut re. school–he’s going to be okay, and so are you.
September 19th, 2005 at 3:32 pm, The June Cleaver Diaries Says:
I’m with Cheryl.
September 19th, 2005 at 6:32 pm, lauritajuanitasanchez Says:
OK…speech path and mom of “special” child here…
I love your rationale for sending Henry to the Catholic school - small classes and lots of structure. I also must say that YES, parochial schools have to, by law, accept kids with special needs (IDEA). And although the Catholic school itself may not provide all of the special services, the public schools MUST. So even though he might not attend a public school, the public school district is still responsible for providing the services outlined in his IEP.
Talk to someone at your local Board of Ed…better yet…talk to the head of the Special Ed department and tell her what you plan to do and see what their response is. Read up on the law and arm yourself before going in. I guarantee you that the public schools will push for the cheapest route. However, they are required to provide those services. After all, you’re paying for all that therapy with your tax dollars.
Good luck.
September 19th, 2005 at 6:59 pm, The June Cleaver Diaries Says:
I agree again! I’m an OT who used to work in schools.
September 19th, 2005 at 7:25 pm, Susie Says:
Not having a school age child, I hope I get as much thoughtful input when I have questions regarding my options! I agree with Cheryl. I hope once school starts you feel more at ease with your decisions.
September 19th, 2005 at 8:14 pm, Candace Says:
I shouldn’t have said anything, and I’m an ass.
I have a very sore spot when it comes to private school education, parochial in particular, and I should NOT let my feelings get in the way when it’s none of my damned business! I should never assume that what we encounter here is going to happen somewhere else.
You put yourself out there and I feel like I dissed you, for lack of a better word! I, of all people, should know better, and I’m so very sorry.
Here’s what I *should* have said:
If your gut tells you it’s best and if Henry is thriving, there you go. You have all of your answers. No matter where you send him to school, *you’re* his mommy and you will ALWAYS make sure he has what he needs.
I can’t believe what a jerk I was.
September 19th, 2005 at 8:53 pm, educat Says:
If you needed my blessing (and yet another comment on this forever long list) you have it.
I love public school but no system can be all things to all people. You are the Mommy and with all the love and care you have given to the issue, I can’t imagine you could go too wrong. Besides, I did time in Fundamentalist school and I think I am the better for a variety of educational experiences.
I would someday be honored to teach High School Henry (New!! From Mattel!!)–it sounds like you’re giving him just the stuff I like to see in kids.
September 19th, 2005 at 9:32 pm, Susan Says:
Misfit, as I said in my e-mail, STOP IT NOW. You are not an ass, you are an important voice in this conversation. I don’t feel dissed, and I know that you understand. ‘Nuff said.
Educat, thanks–maybe the Fundamentalist school will be next for us. Okay, no. Not at all. And I’ll send High School Henry to your house in, oh, about nine years, okay? Good.
You all rock. Now let’s talk about something fun and funny–what the hell is Katy’s last name? Anyone? Anyone?
September 19th, 2005 at 10:04 pm, Susan in Tulsa Says:
Commenting on the post above: it’s not your fault. Henry’s just the way he is. I used to feel like I needed to DO MORE too but really, if you can just BE HAPPY YOURSELF and attend to the important stuff, they’ll be fine. Most kids don’t want their parents to play with them, but just to be around when needed.
For humor: my older son sent me this yesterday because he knows I’ve been critiquing a lot of statistical research lately.
September 20th, 2005 at 4:15 am, Susan Says:
Susan, that is so funny–I especially like the assertion at the end that he should have gone into CS (my brother is a CS guy). Thank you!
And thank you, too, for the nice reminder.
September 20th, 2005 at 6:12 pm, Llama Says:
I’m coming late to this but thought I would tell you about my experience at Catholic school. There were only two primary schools to choose from where I grew up; the public school and the private Catholic school. My older brother went to the public school for a few years but by the time I was starting school my parents were fed up with how much they liked to use ‘Capital Punishment’ on him, so they sent us both to the Catholic school, despite us not being Catholic.
I just thought I’d let you know that even though I’m not Catholic, I really enjoyed going to that school and I never had any kind of problem or exclusion from not being the same religion as the rest of the school (in my year there were only two of us who weren’t Catholic).
In fact there was a real sense of community and the small size of the school made for a great group of friends.
Of course, there was a lot of religious stuff: we said prayers 6 times a day, had extensive religion classes and there was always mass and lots of classtime about the different Saints’ days, but they made it interesting and fun and I don’t think I was ever TOO bored.
Anyway, I guess I’m trying to say that if Henry’s not being Catholic is a major part of your concern, I think he’ll be fine. From my experience, the Catholic school system is very welcoming of everyone. And when it comes down to it - it’s a school and they are there to teach and support the children and if you think it is the best place for Henry then it probably is.
Anyway, I hope this helps.